Hebrews 12:8-11 – The Fruits of God’s Disciplines

Translation & Sermon by Nate Wilson for Christ the Redeemer Church of Manhattan, KS, 24 Nov. 2019

Omitting greyed-out text should bring presentation time down around 45 minutes.

Intro

vs.7-8 Keep persevering for the purpose of training. It is as to sons that God is being offered to y’all, for what son is there which a father does not train? But if y’all are without [the] training of which all [sons] have become partakers, then y’all are illegitimate and not sons.

v.9 Furthermore, we have indeed had the fathers of our flesh [as] trainers and we were chastened. Will we not much more submit ourselves to the Father of our spirits and live?

v.10 For, on the one hand, they were training for a few days ac­cording to their reckoning, but on the other hand, He [will train] on the basis of what bears together into our partaking of His holiness.

v.11 So, every3 training-event for the duration doesn’t seem to be a joy (but rather a grief!), yet afterward, it pays back the peaceful fruit of righteousness to the ones who have been exercised by it.

CONCLUSION


APPENDIX: Greek Text & English Versions of Hebrews 12:7-11A

Greek NT

NAW

KJV

7 εἰςB παιδείαν ὑπομένετε, ὡς υἱοῖς ὑμῖν προσ­φέρεταιC ὁ Θεός· τίς γὰρ [ἐστιν]D υἱὸς ὃν οὐ παι­δεύει πατήρ;E

7 Keep persev-ering for the purpose of train­ing. It is as to sons that God is being offered to y’all, for what son is there which a father does not train?

7 If ye endure chastening, God X dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom [the] father chasteneth not?

8 εἰF δὲ χωρίς ἐστε παιδείας, ἧς μέτοχοι γεγόνασι πάντες, ἄρα νόθοιG ἐστὲ καὶ οὐχ υἱοί.

8 But if y’all are without [the] training of which all [sons] have become partak­ers, then y’all are illegitimate and not sons.

8 But if ye be without chastise­ment, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9 εἶταH τοὺς μὲν τῆς σαρκὸς ἡμῶν πατέρας εἴχομενI παιδευτὰς καὶJ ἐνετρεπόμεθα·K οὐ πολλῷL μᾶλλον ὑποταγησόμεθα τῷ πατρὶ τῶν πνευμάτωνM καὶN ζήσομεν;

9 Furthermore, we have indeed had the fathers of our flesh [as] trainers and we were chastened. Will we not much more sub­mit ourselves to the Father of our spirits and live?

9 Furthermore X we have had X fathers of our flesh [which] corrected us, and we X gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in sub­jection unto the Father of X spirits, and live?

10 οἱ μὲν γὰρ πρὸςO ὀλίγας ἡμέρας κατὰ τὸ δοκοῦν αὐτοῖς ἐπαίδευον, ὁ δὲ ἐπὶ τὸ συμφέρον, εἰςP τὸ μεταλαβεῖν τῆς ἁγιότητοςQ αὐτοῦ.

10 For, on the one hand, they were training for a few days according to their reckoning, but on the other hand, He [will train] on the basis of what bears to­gether into our partaking of His holiness.

10 For they ver­ily for a few days chastened us after their [own] pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

11 πᾶσα δὲ παιδεία πρὸς μὲν τὸ παρὸνR οὐ δοκεῖ χαρᾶς εἶναι, ἀλλὰ λύπης, ὕστερον δὲ καρπὸν εἰρηνικὸνS τοῖς δι᾿ αὐτῆς γεγυμνασμένοις ἀποδίδωσι δικαιοσύνης.

11 So, every training-event for the duration doesn’t seem to be a joy (but rather a grief!), yet afterward, it pays back the peaceful fruit of righteousness to the ones who have been exercised by it.

11 Now no chas­tening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: never­theless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.



1This passage has been used to advance traducianism (the view that human souls come from humans) by Tertullian, Luther, Strong, Hodge, and Gordon Clark, so Aquinas, Calvin, Henry, Owen, and Delitzsch (and Hughes) felt the need to defend creationism (the view that each human soul comes miraculously from God) at this point in their commentaries. This, in turn, led Bruce, Moffatt (and Hughes) to assert in their commentaries that the author of Hebrews was not trying to weigh in on this modern philosophical debate.
“God is the Father of the body as well as of the soul, and, properly speaking, he is indeed the only true Father; and that this name is only as it were by way of concession applied to men, both in regard of the body and of the soul. As, however, in creating souls, he does use the instrumentality of men, and as he renews them in a wonderful manner by the power of the Spirit, he is peculiarly called, by way of eminence, the Father of spirits.” ~J. Calvin

2Matthew Henry added: “...to be stubborn and discontented under due correction is a double fault; for the correction supposes there has been a fault already committed against the parent’s commanding power, and superadds a further fault against his chastening power.”

3“The A.V., by joining οὐ not to πᾶσα all, and rendering no chastisement, weakens the emphasis on the idea every kind of chastisement." ~Marvin Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament

4As per NIV and ESV, neither of which translated xara as “pleasant” any of the other 58 times it occurs in the N. T.

5But exercise and training can go in the other direction too, for the Apostle Peter described how some folks 2 Peter 2:14 "having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained [γεγυμνασμένην] in covetous practices, and are accursed children." (NKJV)

AThe Greek is the Majority text, edited by myself to follow the majority of the earliest-known manuscripts only when the early manuscript evidence is practically unanimous. My original document includes notes on the NKJV, NASB, NIV, & ESV English translations, but since they are all copyrighted, I cannot include them in my online document. Underlined words in English versions indicate a standalone difference from all other English translations of a certain word. Strikeout usually indicates that the English translation is, in my opinion, too far outside the range of meaning of the original Greek word. The addition of an X indicates a Greek word left untranslated – or a plural Greek word translated as an English singular. [Brackets] indicate words added in English not in the Greek. {Pointed Braces} indicate words added in Greek to the original. Key words are colored consistently across the chart to show correlations.

BThe traditional Greek editions (Textus Receptus from 16th century Europe and Greek Orthodox Church editions from at least 1904 to the present) do not contain the final sigma on this word, changing its meaning from “into” to “if.” The sigma (“into”) is in all 4 known manuscripts from the first millennium (not counting the Chester-Beatty Papyrus which only contains the second half of this verse), and the majority of second millennium manuscripts also have sigma, so it is kept in the contemporary critical editions of the GNT. The preposition here is considered causal “for the purpose of” (L&N#89.57) by grammarians.

CRobinson tagged this verb passive, A.T. Robertson tagged is as middle “bearing oneself towards.” Active forms also occur in Hebrews, so deponency seems to be ruled out.

DThis verb of being is missing in the three oldest-known manuscripts (again, not counting P46), as well as in 3 later manuscripts, but is written in the vast majority of manuscripts dating back as far as the 6th century. Since verbs of being are so frequently not written out but assumed, this makes no difference in meaning.

ETurner’s Grammar p.174: Notice the anarthrous construction with ΄υιος… πατηρ(and it is not ‘ο πατηρ, “his father”), “a father” (cf. Blass & Debrunner p.257[3]); “what son is there whom his father, as a father, does not chasten?”).

FThis is a First class conditional structure. Grammarians see this as an indication that author assumes the condition to be true, but the context here does not seem to support that connotation.

GP.E. Hughes quotes Spicq saying, “Νοθοι must be taken in its ancient juridicial sense, as strictly opposed to γνησιοι. Legi-timate children alone had the right of inheriting their fathers’ property, whereas the νοθος could never be επικληρος nor even participate with the paternal family in the acts of public worship (ιερα), for the reason that he had never been pres­ented to the members of the φρατρια and had not been inscribed in the register of citizens (cf. Απογεγραμμενων, v.23).”

HVincent: “Everywhere else in N.T. this particle marks a succession of time or incident (Mk. 4:17 & 8:25; Lk. 8:12; 1Cor 15:5 & 7). Here it introduces a new phase of the subject under discussion.”

IBoth “fathers” and “trainers” are accusative nouns which appear to be the object of this verb, so I think it could be translated “we have had our disciplinarian fathers.” For this reason, I do not see this verb “had” as being an auxillary to another verb, as some English versions render it. The concept of subjection is explicit in the parallel phrase later in this verse, which is why the Louw & Nida tagging team chose the supplemental #37.4a, not in the original lexicon.

JTurner’s Grammar noted that the kai here combined with the imperfect verb expresses a “further result.” ~Hanna

KThe Greek word is passive, and literally means to “be turned inward.” I found no evidence of it being a deponent to be translated actively, but I could also find no translator or commentator (not even the Greek-speaking Chrysostom) who interpreted it passively, so I may be mistaken on a passive interpretation. The root has to do with turning from shame to honor. Cf. Matt. 21:37, Isa. 54:4; Ezek. 36:32; 1 Cor. 4:14; 2 Thess. 3:14. William Hendriksen, in his Bible commentary on Mt. 21 suggested that it could be translated, “turn themselves about, being ashamed...” A. T. Robertson, “It is the picture of turning with respect when one worthy of it appears.”

LThe five oldest-known manuscripts read nominative case (πολυ), but the Textus Receptus and the Greek Orthodox editions follow the overall majority of manuscripts which read dative (πολλω), but it doesn’t really change the meaning. I suspect there was a drift in grammar conventions over time.

MThis appears to be an adaptation to the context of fatherhood of the Septuagint phrase, “God of the spirits [of men],” found in Num. 16:22, 27:16, & Rev. 22:6.

NCalvin suggested that this conjunction be a purposive “that you will live,” and the team that tagged the GNT with Louw & Nida numbers chose the resultative “so you will live” (89.50a).

OPros oligas appears in two other places in the N.T. (1Tim. 4:8 & James 4:14), but neither with “days” as here.

PJohn Brown suggested that this preposition be rendered “‘till,” in parallel with the clause “for a few days.”

QHapex Legomenon (but shows up in 2 Macc. 15:2). Seems to be synonymous with ἁγιωσύνη (2 Cor. 7:1, 1 Thess. 3:13) and ὁσιότητι (Eph. 4:24).

RVincent: “Not merely during the present, but for the present regarded as the time in which its application is necessary and salutary. Μὲν indicates that the suffering present is to be offset by a fruitful future - but (δὲ) afterward.”

SThis adjectival form of the word for “peace” only occurs in the N.T. here and in James 3:17. Vincent noted that its use in the Septuagint was in relation to “men, the heart, especially of words and sacrifices.” The phrase “pay back fruit” only occurs here and Rev. 22:2.